Let the Damn Woman Talk

Are you like me?  Aren't you getting sick and tired of the Obama campaign's state of perpetual outrage over supposedly racist comments--comments that invariably turn out not to be racist at all when you actually look at them?  

Geraldine Ferraro may be wrong when she claims that Barack Obama is benefitting in this campaign because of his race, but she has the god-given right to be wrong.  Nothing she said was racist.  She's just trying to discuss something she believes she is seeing.  If you want to respond to her, then why not say why she's wrong?  Isn't that more constructive than some woeful lament that boils down to the thinly-veiled (or unveiled) assertion that she's a demon who must be burned?

I'll tell you one damn thing: decreeing that white people can never try to talk honestly and openly, and without fear, about matters of race is NOT the way to achieve racial harmony and justice.  There seems to be this idea emerging in this country--and this is not a new thing to this campaign, it has already been emerging over the past few years--that nobody can say anything about race except to hold our hands over our hearts on MLK day and intone pious platitudes about the Civil Rights movement.   Anything else is "playing the race card," whatever the hell that means.  

I'm not into that.  Everything should be talked about.  Good ideas drive out bad ideas.  It's not 1965 any more, and we need to have a dynamic and ongoing conversation in this country about racial justice, about what has changed and what hasn't changed, about the goals we want to achieve, the means to achieve them, markers to test achievement, and how we are to know when or whether the job is done.  The conversation should recognize that everybody has a stake in the outcome and a role to play in the process--even old white ladies who may not always be right about everything.

As long as we are setting up the standard that we have to try to understand and solve problems of race in the dark, because they're off-limits for discussion, we will never solve those problems.

Why doesn't Obama talk about race?  Why isn't Obama proud to be running as a black candidate the way Hillary is proud to be running as a woman?  I'm personally proud that both of them are running and doing well, and I damn sure don't see why I can't talk about it.



Display:


Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Sigh. Noone is calling Ferraro a racist. Why exactly did YOUR candidate say that she disagreed with Ferraro's comments? Because they were politically damaging. Anyone can say anything they like -- however, you've got to accept the consequences of your speech.
"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

People are absolutely calling Ferraro a racist. She seriously crossed a line, and so it doesn't surprise me. What's in her heart of hearts, I can't speculate to, but she really blew it.


by mattw on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Sorry, I should have said "many people".
"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Google "ferraro racist" (none / 0)

n/t


by Trickster on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

I believe she said that she disagreed with them because she disagreed with them.


by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:36:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're wrong (2.00 / 0)

Ferraro has a history of denigrating Black presidential candidates.  She did the same thing, with the SAME WORDS, back in the 80's towards Jesse Jackson.

If an Obama supporter had said 'Hillary is only being considered, b/c she's a woman - if she was male, she would be totally unimpressive' then you would be going apeshit over it, and so would this whole site.  Hell, the stupid 'monster' comment had three rec'd diaries at the same time!  And this is at least this bad.

Clinton's surrogate is making a CONSCIOUS effort to introduce racial elements into this campaign, in order to play up to the latent racial stereotypes of lower-education white voters.  She went on two morning shows and repeated her nonsense today.  Clinton isn't even trying to shut her up.  So don't give me that bullcrap about her merely being 'wrong.'  She knows she's wrong, and so do you, and so does Clinton.  She's out there talking about this stuff as a strategic move.

The fact that half our party seems to feel compelled to defend these sorts of comments just blows my mind, really


by Cycloptichorn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:42:36 PM EST

Re: You're wrong (2.00 / 1)

Actually, a commentator on DKos put it better then I ever could.

"I'm a white male, and I think she's right... If Obama were a white man, he wouldn't be in the situation he's in today.
If he were a white man and he:
leads the popular vote
leads the elected delegate count
won 29+ states
won democrats abroad
electrified crowds of thousands
was a qualified Senator
showed excellent judgment
was articulate
ran on a platform of hope
did not play "politics as usual"
had everything, including the kitchen sink hurled at him
did not get drawn into muddy politics
was consistently lied about
was constantly having his words twisted...
Yes, I'd say that if he was a white man, this country would be outraged that this nomination process was still going on. He would have been the nominee after IOWA... The media certainly wouldn't be trying to make him seem "questionable" as to whether or not he's worthy of be "Commander-in-Chief" So if you want to play the race card, which Obama has done everything in his power to stay away from, then lets call it like we see it. He has to do twice as much just to be on equal footing... Thats ok, I'm sure after all these years he is probably used to it. You know what, just makes him stronger.
Nevermind this man's skin color... Elect him because he's the best man for the job"


by Cycloptichorn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

SC - (2.00 / 1)

except that takes about 25 different hypotheticals into account.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SC - (none / 0)

If they were hypothetical, which of course they're not. They were hypothetical a month or two ago. Now they're reality.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong (2.00 / 1)

If BHO was a white man he would not be running in the first place.  

He is here in this spot as he is AA and was sure to win the AA vote as Jesse Jackson.

I would agree that he is articulate and the platform of hope is drawing new voters and his message of out with the old politics is resonating with new/independends.


by indus on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong (none / 0)

If Hillary wasn't Bill's wife she wouldn't even be a Senator.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong (none / 0)

Maybe - But which First lady ran for the senate


by indus on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I sure as hell wouldn't (none / 0)

I don't agree with the diarist, but I would say that that is probably very true.  I don't think either of our candidates would be where they are in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, if they did not possess the symbolic appeal that they do.

Hell, if we are looking for the absolute, most democratic, most progressive candidate out there, it would be Edwards- hands down.  So please, tell me what isn't inspirational about Edwards?  Tell me why he still isn't in the race.


by linc on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I sure as hell wouldn't (none / 0)

Media assassination.  I liked Edwards quite a bit.


by Cycloptichorn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong (2.00 / 0)

he fact that half our party seems to feel compelled to defend these sorts of comments just blows my mind, really

Don't worry, it's the stupid half...


by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Conscious effort to introduce race? (2.00 / 2)

Maybe you could explain, then, if this is something the Clinton campaign is doing consciously, why it is invariably used as a cudgel to beat her campaign with?  You think Clinton is that stupid?  Remember, around 25% of all voters in Democratic primaries are black, and most of the rest are white pro-civil-rights liberals.  Seriously, you'd have to be a moron to try to appeal to white racists in the Democratic primaries.

Not to mention that it goes against decades of proven support by Hillary Clinton for civil rights causes.

If the Clinton camp was stupid enough to try to whip up racism against a black candidate in a Democratic primary to start with, which you'll never convince me of, you would sure think they would've learned their lesson when they lost 20 points in the polls in 1 week at S. Carolina, the week that race was most in the news.


by Trickster on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 1)

Why is the Obama camp screaming racisim? why are they calling her comments racist when they clearly are not?


by americanincanada on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:43:11 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

So you think there was nothing wrong with what Farraro said? I challenge you to find one statement from the obama campaign that said what she said was racist.


by mecarr on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Some people are saying racism. Some people are saying that she's stocking racial tensions. BIG difference.
"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 1)

If stoking racial tensions for electoral gain is very different from flat-out racism, I guess Nixon's old Southern Strategy really wasn't so bad after all.


by Gimmeliberty on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 1)

"Willie Horton" was also not a racist strategy, I guess. Or "Harold, call me!"


by BlueinColorado on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Yeah I mean it no more racist than this ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXM zk

but Dems got all angry aobut this and disparaged paragon of equality Jesse Helms.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 3)

Yes, I agree with you.

I also think that MLK would be rolling over in his grave if he knew a statement that he and LBJ worked together to further civil rights is now considered a racist remark.

here's a commentary by Bill Moyers on the relationship of Martin Luther King and LBJ:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/011820 08/watch4.html


by moevaughn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:46:58 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (1.00 / 1)

Praising LBJ is one thing. Going one step further and phrasing your comments in a way that diminishes MLK is another.
"There's something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. People who don't want the meeting to end."
by campaignmonitor on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How can you honestly believe that (2.00 / 2)

was Clinton's intention?  She was talking about political experience.  I honestly believe that MLK would have agreed with her as did John Lewis.

And then there is the whole basically referring to John Lewis as an uncle tom because he defended Clinton.  That speaks volumes about which side in this primary campaign wants there to be a race issue.


by linc on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How can you honestly believe that (none / 0)

Yes it was her intention.

She was trying to say that MLK was just a speechmaker, like Obama, and it took a white president to enact his speeches.


by Sinbad Sinbad on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why on earth would she want to do that? (2.00 / 1)

especially at that early juncture in the primary, before South Carolina?  The answer is that she wouldn't, but some people want to believe that she would.

And the wanting to believe she is racist, is just as racist as anything she could say or do that could be construed that way.


by linc on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How can you honestly believe that (2.00 / 1)

John Lewis, on January 14:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/ jan-june08/race_01-14.html

   I knew Martin Luther King, Jr. I marched with him. I worked with him. He played a major role in inspiring people, giving people hope.

   I also knew Lyndon Johnson. I was there with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., on March 15, 1965, when we watched Lyndon Johnson deliver his speech in response to what was happening in Selma, when he said, "And we shall overcome."

   I looked at Dr. King. He looked at me, and tears came down his eyes. And he said, "We will get the civil rights bill, the voting rights bill passed. We will march from Selma to Montgomery."

   I think there's been a deliberate, systematic attempt on the part of some people in the Obama camp to really fan the flame of race and really try to distort what Senator Clinton said. I understand and I think most right-thinking people understood what she said.

   Martin Luther King, Jr., created the climate, created the environment, but it took a Lyndon Johnson to get the legislation through the Congress.

   No one is trying to say Dr. King did little. He did a great deal. He is not crying out from his grave in Atlanta saying, "Defend me." His legacy doesn't need any defense...

   Let me say, Judy, President Clinton and Senator Clinton have a long record of working to bring people together. Long before President Clinton ever dreamed of running for president, long before Senator Clinton ever dreamed of running for president, they have a history, a very, very long history.

   And no right-thinking, informed American would ever believe that President Clinton or Mrs. Clinton would do anything to use the race card...

   Well, I think it did come out of the language that Mr. Obama is using, but the Obama camp is also doing something else. They're sending out memos to members of the media, trying to suggest that the Clintons are playing the race card.


"TX,OH,PA,KY,IN,WV,PR,MI & FL !"
by Thomas J Jefferson on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 1)

there you go again. race baiting


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: liar, liar (2.00 / 1)

 
Stop repeating your stupid lie.  HRC has in no way ever diminished MLK.  to the contrary.
by moevaughn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:25:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 3)

Aren't you getting sick and tired of the Obama campaign's state of perpetual outrage over supposedly racist comments

Yes...and the media is feeding the frenzy. Obama may be benefiting from it, I don't know, but it certainly is destructive to have a Democratic candidate for President of the United States calling people rascists all the time and having the media trumpeting racism racism every minute of every day. Is this the way the general election is going to be run? I think it may well be. Any thoughts on how well that's going to work.


by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:14:45 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

"but it certainly is destructive to have a Democratic candidate for President of the United States calling people rascists all the time"

When did this happen?


by Sinbad Sinbad on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:17:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (2.00 / 1)

If you haven't noticed, then I suggest you turn on the TV and watch any news channel for ten minutes.


by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

"but it certainly is destructive to have a Democratic candidate for President of the United States calling people rascists all the time"

Then it shouldn't be at all difficult for you to furnish us with one quote of Barack Obama calling someone a racist. Since, as you say, he does it all the time and it's on teh TeeVee every ten minutes.

It's about 3:15, Eastern. Go.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Ya got nothin', huh?

You really ought to avoid hyperbole. It's not your friend.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 06:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

When did this happen?

It didn't. To paraphrase Gloria Steinem, Obama needs to inject race in this election like a fish needs a bicycle -- a bicycle made of fishhooks, that is. And yes, Geraldine Ferraro is a racist -- and so are the Clintons. The College Republican/Goldwater Girl (what was the 1964 election about, again?) finally comes home.


by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: social issues (none / 0)

every election the Repubs and MSM manage to make the focus divisive social issues; even when economically the country is on the brink of going down the tubes big-time.

focus on divisive, social issues always benefits the republicans. now it's this false racism stuff dividing the Dems.  repubs are loving seeing the Dems divided and on their way to being conquered.

The Dems ought to drop this racism stuff, and the candidates should get together for a town hall type forum where they can directly engage the electorate and compare/contrast their plans for the future of the country.

any Dem leaders behind the scenes ought to push for something like this to reframe the debate away from divisive social issues and back to the big issues of economy, health care, foreclosure, etc.

We need to do this ASAP.


by moevaughn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (1.00 / 1)

Neither Clinton is a racist.  However, I'm guessing the KKK wouldn't deny Geraldine Ferraro entrance into their club.


by shalca on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:41:13 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (1.00 / 1)

However, I'm guessing the KKK wouldn't deny Geraldine Ferraro entrance into their club.

Well, evidently the Clinton's and the KKK have similar standards, because the former don't seem to have any problem with Ferraro being a part of their club, either.


by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Exactly, I just don't get why Clinton wont do the whole denounce/reject-forced resignation deal with Ferraro.


by Socraticsilence on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Well said.  It would be nice if people weren't so busy crying racism that they can't even take a good look at what you said.  I think they are preparing their responses before they even finish reading.


by PlainWords on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:58:55 PM EST

Re: What to you call it then... (none / 0)

 When Black Americans are voting (and saying it) voting for a candidate just "because he is black?"
  When a teacher harasses a student to vote for a candidate just because that candidate is black?

 I've been seeing this for quite sometime and hearing it for quite sometime...and quite frankly I just become more and more outraged at the whole damn thing! Noone is addressing this issue EXCEPT for Geraldine Ferraro!  

 It would seem to me that the very fact that The Obama camp has not been addressing the issue nor the MSM well maybe that's the bigger issue.

 There are other black politicians  or former (was going to write "public servants" but was afraid I'd get chastised for it -even though that's what they -politicians-are called)

 I kinda like Harold Ford Jr. from Tenessee a little right of center for my taste but he is aprt of the next generation which is what is also happening in case anyone missed it, there also gong to be a "passing of the torch" from one generation to the next-McCain's generation is on it's way out whoever is gonig to receive the torch from our genertaion -well we just better be mindful of who is picked or we may not be able to keep it! Again look at Harold Ford Jr. tough and actually has a track record in Congress!

ONe other thing here, at least the Dems. have the courage to press the buttons to air out the laundry so as to be able to heal and come back together and move on- I don't think we'd see the Repubs. waniting to go there as a group.

It's out there so now let's talk about it hela it and move on. Next issue-Generational change.

namaste.

 


by artsyker on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:28:44 PM EST

Give me a friggin break (1.00 / 1)

This is a dog whistle to every low-info voter that's ever felt slighted because some 'unqualified minority' got a promotion, a job, a spot in a college, etc over him or her.

Fine - Ferraro wants to HONESTLY talk about race?  How about rather than calling him "lucky" - she admits that just as there may well be AAs that voting FOR the "black guy" we all know there are also plenty of caucasians that will not vote for a N***.

I mean... is it just random statistical variance that Obama's numbers among white voters in some states run about 20-30 pts higher than his numbers among white voters in other states?

Please.

Lucky?

What a joke.

I feel no NEED to listen to jackasses like Geraldingus Ferraro.   Advancing such a salacious dog whistle argument makes her a piece of shit in my book.   She's either too ignorant to know any better -- or too outright despicable.   Either way - her time on the stage should be over.


by zonk on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:30:55 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)

Apparently everything the Clinton campaign does has to be justified somehow. Clinton supporters are trying to paint a picture of Ferraro as a brave person speaking out on a subject that no one else dares discuss.

What a crock. If Ferraro had just thoughtfully spoken out about race and gender, there wouldn't have been a problem. Turn on the news networks, and what do you see? Pundits discussing Obama and Clinton's race and gender support at every turn. Clearly, discussing race's role in the election ISN'T taboo.

What was objectionable about Ferraro's statements is that she seemed to denigrate Obama by saying that he was only where he was because he was black. Then add the Clinton's refusal to really denounce this kind of talk, and you have what appears to be a dog whistle to white resentment about affirmative action.

If you think that's brave, and speaking truth, then I don't know what I can say. I don't think it's what Democrats should be about.


by animated on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 04:49:07 PM EST

Ferraro's comments and Clinton's use of them (none / 0)

Ferraro's comments and Clinton's use of them were, are and ever shall be disgusting. the fact that everybody is now talking about race is exactly what Clinton wants. This is her second attempt to portray Obama as primarily a black candidate. The timing of the comments is significant too as (and there was plently of evidence from Miss'pi to back this up) that in some states he is an AA candidate for AAs. of course there were nuances within Miss'pi and there are many other states where white voters have voted in the majority for Obama but Ole Miss was not one of them. Ferraro's comments are timed to coincide with the Miss'pi results but are really for the benefit of voters down the line in PA, Kentucky, IND and NC.
The real sadness is Ferraro and Clinton are decent people on many fronts but they just seem very out of touch. The moment thay have to compete with an AA they play the race card. All in the family is off the air. It's the 21st century - welcome.
by thewholeofthemoon on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:03:13 PM EST

Re: Let the Damn Woman Talk (none / 0)


Geraldine Ferarro also said that Walter Mondale chose her for a running mate in no small part BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN.

Does that mean Mondale was sexist?  Or Ferarro was sexist for saying that?


by moevaughn on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 07:40:39 PM EST


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