I'm ready for it... ;-)

Dude, with all respect, we're all sick of PUMA diaries.  5 times a day.  With respect.

which is why I don't even use the name ... you're preachin' to the choir, darlin'

Dizzy

For every Dem who is thinking of voting for McCain this fall there are five indies and Republicans who are genuinely on the fence.  The Dems should focus their efforts on where they'll do the most good.  Don't be upset about what the PUMA people do.  Ask yourself what you'll do.  Puma is a big psych out (eg. the % of Republicans who tell pollsters they'll vote for Obama right now is equal to the % of Dems who say they'll vote for McCain).  And if the Puma people vote Dem down ticket, better for us.

I wish I could add something useful & insightful.  

My feeling is that the 'pumas' are a small group that are piling any number of grievances into the Hillary pot.  We've seen clearly that it's not though some misguided appreciation of Hillary, they've dumped on her by ignoring her wishes, her policies, her party, and her ideals.  They have, within their own little realm, diminished Hillary by insisting that she's such a weak, and weak-willed figure that she has been broken by the "boys", the "party establishment", the "activist groups", the "money men", or my personal favorite, the "powers that be".  Whether you loved or loathed Hillary, no sane person person could think of her as weak and spineless, as some of the 'puma' posts project.

After the convention some of these people will seriously assess McCain & what he represents for the country.  That sober assessment - outside of the heat of battle (or super-extended phase of the battle,) will probably bring some of these folks back to the party; at least for downticket Dems. The rest either were never real Dems to begin with, or have painted themselves into a rhetorical corner from which they just can't escape.  (Corner reference - read into it what you will.)

In the meantime they seem eager to insinuate themselves into the storylines that should be devoted to Hillary and HER causes, HER policies, and HER party.  I'll get flamed for this line, but effectively, they've thrown Hillary under the bus.  All of this is candy to the media.  Fox & others get to sew dissent, while the rest of the press gets a colorful fringe storyline.

The heartening part of this squabble is that the 'pumas' don't really have a great public face to put forward.  Although they're probably not generally motivated by racism, they've done little to separate themselves from racist smears.  They have no major, high-profile Democrats publicly speaking for them, and they've still attaching themselves to the likes of Larry Sinclair.  None of this quashes the story altogether, but it says that any serious media examination will cast doubts on the groups' claims & credibility.

B-o-o-o-r-i-n-g-g-g.

But just telling them, instructing them how to vote or why you are right and they are wrong, or demanding that they fall in line or telling them they have nowhere else to go or informing them they'll come around in time, will justly be met with laughter.

Seriously what are you guys worried about? McCain is not really running at this point. The only thing you need PUMAs for is money to pay for Obama's stadium or money to make up for those public finance dollars he opted out of receiving. It's just money at this point, and he has plenty.

Dear Democratic Friends:

2008 is a Democratic year-at all levels in all the states. The opportunity is ours. We just have to seize it.

We experienced an exciting, intense, sometimes difficult, campaign to nominate our presidential candidate. Now it's over. Barack Obama won.

I supported Hillary Clinton and am proud and pleased that I did. But she lost. Barack Obama won. It's over.

It is time for all Democrats, supporters of Senator Clinton and all other contenders for the nomination, to stand with him to secure his election and the election of Democrats at all levels of competition.

I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn't establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.

It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It's time to put the primaries behind us. It's time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.

It's time to WIN for Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, America, and our future. We have an unparalleled opportunity. I hope we will all do everything we can to seize the moment.

See you at the Inauguration.

Sincerely,

Don Fowler
DNC Member At-Large, South Carolina
Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee

Alice Germond
Secretary, Democratic National Committee

They're just a figment of their own bitter imaginations -- all two dozen of them.

PUMA really means Putting Up McCain Agenda.  It is a fraudulent organization, and I'm saddened to think there are some Clinton Dems who have joined it.  PUMA is the Fox News of political clubs, too slanted to stand up for truth.

OMG another PUMA doesn't matter so lets spend all our time talking about them....

Just make Hillary the VP and admit that half the party want her and that respecting that half of the party is just good politics.

I would have backed Obama as VP if the shoe was on the other foot...

My strategy has been to work on the voter registration drive, attend Democratic house parties and stay away from the blogs (for the most part).  I'm tired of reading the same old tired anti-Obama talking points that have been debunked time and again.

The (small, irrelevant) PUMA phenomenon came to pass mostly from naive or low information voters believing lies they read online about Obama.  The disinformation campaign didn't just happen on the right, it happened (or attempted to happen) on every progressive blog on the internet.  The McCain camp used trolls to spread lies about Obama to Hillary supporters.  A few of those voters believed what they were hearing (Larry Sinclair anyone?), and became ensnared in McCain's disinformation propaganda campaign.

From there, you have a former McCain donor create a website, (J.Say no deal), for the purpose of giving these lied to voters a home to stew in Obama hate, and slowly but surely bring them to the dark side.   If that doesn't work, they tell them to vote McCain to avenge Hillary, and give woman another chance in 2012 (despite losing the supreme court and every woman's issue that goes along with it).

The biggest danger is that any Democrat believes that a very tiny small group of demonstrably insipid, afeared people represent the huge majority of Democrats who support, and supported Hillary during the primaries. We Clinton supporters greet both people who somehow fit into the category of PUMA the same as we greet purported Obama supporters who claim we are holding back money or support for Obama because we're racists who want to see Obama fail - as tools of the Republican Party. Because despite any claims to being a non-conformist, unique, thinking adult who can manage politics in the most deft and progressive way - you are still being used as a tool of the Republican Party.

Read the responses at TPM or the NYTimes or CNN by alleged Obama supporters about PUMAs and you will see why this topic keeps popping up. Yes, there are some extremely wealthy, racist ideologues stoking the effort, but I still see expressed throughout the internet the reason why some Obama supporters are so freaked out by PUMAs. The racism is  specifically against African-Americans. They are pitting Latinos and Blacks against each other while pitting whites against both groups.

We're not supposed to acknowledge this because we don't want the forces of racism to be mobilized against Obama. Like racists or sexists or homophobes need our permission?  I've said the same thing to PUMAs in my world as I've said to Democrats who believe that Hillary or Bill Clinton are racists: Pedal that bullshit agenda somewhere else, out of earshot in a "spiderhole" preferably, so I can work with like minded people who realize that electing Obama and other Democrats now is the only way we will be able to even start a conversation about all the perceived sleights and actual grievances people have about sexism or racism or homophobia or classism or ageism or regionalism - after Democrats fix the economy of course.  Because that really is what most Americans really care about right now.

Other issues are all valid, I'm sure, but no poor or working class or middle class white, black, asian, latino man or woman of any race is going to be heard at all if McCain or Republicans have anything to say about it. They will all still be treated like objects that threaten the financial status of the country as opposed to the way to improve the economy.

Recognize the Clintons for who they are - great American leaders. Recognize how the media and people whose minds have been twisted by the media - a lot of people who otherwise consider themselves clever or smart or independent- have used "Clintons" as a vehicle, an excuse for hatred and stupidity and a mirror to vent their rage about whatever it is that serves as a good excuse why they aren't where they believe they should be. The only thing that compels support for Republicans and especially for McCain is their fear of change that they think will mean that they will lose their position in society - regardless of how they feel about the fairness of holding that position. White people are going to become powerless in this country. Right, exactly. (snark for those with limited snark detecting abilities or those who are hammered at the moment)

The Republicans have already tried the "electing Obama will give permission to packs of ill-mannered, violent black youths permission to defile your daughters while forcing them to adopt a Taliban like sect of islam upon us all in detriment to all the freedoms that even the poorest person in America would rather die for than succumb to - except of course when it comes to the near universal agreement that homosexuals should never be treated with equality." I've got the e-mails to document that effort. It didn't seem to go over well, but I still get them and I count on them using anti-Clinton sentiment as a vehicle for their more tried and true "take over of the United States by uppity negros with guns, crack pipes, and $600 sneakers stolen from some poor white guy on his way to his college Algebra class. I can point out many websites out that are all about this.

So Democrats either need to shut that up, or we lose. It won't be because of anything that either Clinton or either Obama says, it will be our fault for fighting about perfect racial, gender or regional representation and policy, whatever that is, while McCain and the Republicans gouge more and more people with their hateful, pointed sticks to worship in the Church of the Poisioned Mind. And let's stop pretending that Republicans or PUMAs and hopefully a group of less than 8 to 21 self-described Obama supporters are doing anything other than making the election of "fancy lad" about anything other than race and really, really old and dysfunctional economic and foreign policy. Hey, have a cool Bud on me and ask yourself why yet another American company is now owned by some people from Belgium. Voting McCain will put a stop to that! The owners of that corporation made lots of money. Is that not pro-American? (obligatory snark pop-up)

yeah. well I think you'll find that most PUMAs are relying on emotion rather than rationality to base their decisions on. [im talking about a specific PUMA, aka Mama Chaos;] and most of them dont look like they are coming around soon. so the whole fact scenario kind of goes out the window when emotions are running the PUMA show; they dont want to listen to my pretty little facts.

madness in general, just doesn't abruptly end. it subsides and eventually fades. or it consumes. lets hope the PUMA madness does the former rather than the latter, yeah?

[always gotta be keeping it positive atdleft? you are too cool; great diary-]

a long ass time ago. It's hillarious how they run around and act like we have to beg them for their support. I just show them to door. The party is better off without them.

I have to disagree with a few trains of thought.

For one, if PUMA people aren't "real" Democrats than Obamacans aren't "real" Republicans and, well, so be it.  Apparently PUMAs who are voting McCain see something in him they prefer to Obama and the converse is true for Obamacans. I don't have to agree with the rationale to respect a person's right to vote however they choose.  

Where it get's sticky is self-defining as a member of one party or the other while working against that party's nominee.  Again, I'm certainly not going to fault an Obamacan for attempting to reform their party by voting against it.  And if PUMA people think voting for McCain will send their party a message I can respect that.

However, my respect falls away when I consider what's at stake this election cycle -- nothing less than the future of the planet, our Constitutional rights, healthcare for millions and the American standard of living.  Wow.  And that's no overstatement.  

I can understand PUMA outrage and anger, what I can't understand is the single-minded self-destructive idiocy of their impotent "solution".  Toss the planet and the country to the wolves on principle when it could be far more effectively addressed in non-destructive ways.

It starts to sound and feel like all the working and middle class folks, their kids destined to be chewed up in Iraq while their job was being shipped overseas, who voted for Bush only because he was "pro-life".  

Somehow, electing a true obvious misogynist determined to strip women of their rights is somehow an appropriate way to address sexism.  

I have to stop now because my scalp is sore from scratching it on this one.

...and they will quickly be forgotten.  This group of people is already in the "dustbin of history".  

We are better off without these crazy people.  The best thing to do is to ignore their bullshit.  Once we stop paying attention to them they will lose their final audience.

If you are sick of all the PUMA hubbub, why are you doing more than almost anybody on this site to make hubbub about PUMA?

The Hillary supporters I know in real life are all voting for Obama.  They're even reading Obama's books to try to learn more about him.

As far as I'm concerned this PUMA crap only exists on the web and FOX spews.